[ARDF] Fun and Frustration

Sun Sep 27 07:44:39 PDT 2009

A couple comments:

I like to distinguish ARDF as "the only *athletic* radio sport". That claim
seems to be undisputed so far, except for one individual who has a
particularly strenuous field day regimen.

It is my observation that orienteering has a similar drop-out rate as ARDF.
Few people return, or become active participants. But orienteering in our
area does reasonably well due to the large numbers of people interested in
giving the sport a try initially. ARDF is more intimidating, I think, to
most beginners. In ARDF one must learn all the skills required for
orienteering, and on top of that learn how to use the radio gear, record
bearings, identify and deal with confounding signal conditions, etc. I think
that the only way to have ARDF approach orienteering in participant numbers,
is to find ways to simplify and lower the initial investment (in time and
money) a regular participant must make. I think ARDF will ultimately need to
evolve or go extinct. I think it must evolve both in the USA and
internationally. The rules, and the equipment, both must evolve.
-NZ0I
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:00 PM, <ardf-request at kkn.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: Fun and Frustration (Jay Hennigan)
>   2. Re: Fun and Frustration (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich)
>   3. Re: Fun and Frustration (Kenneth E. Harker)
>   4. Re: Fun and Frustration (Marvin Johnston)
>   5. Re: Fun and Frustration (Vadim Afonkin)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:51:21 -0700
> From: Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net>
> Subject: Re: [ARDF] Fun and Frustration
> To: ka5cvh <ka5cvh at gmail.com>
> Cc: Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net>, ARDF <ardf at kkn.net>,     Gerald
>        Boyd <wb8wfk at worldnet.att.net>
> Message-ID: <4ABC6869.3070404 at west.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> ka5cvh wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Tony Langdon <vk3jed at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I agree, ARDF is the real radio sport.  Contesting is
> >> contesting.  It's a competition, not a sport where physical activity
> >> is involved. :)
> >
> > Mike wrote
> >
> > But amateur radio is a "Contact sport" :-)
> >
> > Seriously, I interpret "radio sport" to encompass contesting whether
> > at a HF multi-multi station or a modest home station.  It could be
> > V/UHF roving or moon-bounce.
>
> I would define that as a contest, not a sport.  Working the rare DX in a
> pileup is somewhat like being the tenth caller to the top-40 AM radio
> station with the right answer to the trivia question.  Exciting,
> competition, fun, but not a sport.
>
> Shame on the ARRL for this month's QST with a theme of "Radio sport" and
> zero mention of even the existence of ARDF.
>
> > And make no mistake while I will exert an
> > enormous amount of energy doing classic orienteering and ARDF you can
> > not call my activity a sport.
>
> Sure it is.  How is a foot race not a sport?
>
> --
> Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - jay at impulse.net
> Impulse Internet Service  -  http://www.impulse.net/
> Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:15:58 -0500
> From: "Mike (KA5CVH) Urich" <ka5cvh at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ARDF] Fun and Frustration
> To: Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net>
> Cc: Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net>, ARDF <ardf at kkn.net>,     Gerald
>        Boyd <wb8wfk at worldnet.att.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <15b2c6c70909250515m456cf62jf5c86c3630c82d42 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 1:51 AM, Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net> wrote:
>
> >> And make no mistake while I will exert an
> >> enormous amount of energy doing classic orienteering and ARDF you can
> >> not call my activity a sport.
> >
> > Sure it is. ?How is a foot race not a sport?
>
> Mike wrote
>
> I have two bad ankles (broke as young adult), one bad knee (dislocated
> as young adult), I'm now old, fat, grey haired, and getting lazier
> with age.
> For me orienteering and ARDF is just recreation not competition.
>
> --
> Mike (Atlas Shrugged) Urich, Uhmerikun
> http://ka5cvh.com
> http://twitter.com/KA5CVH
>
> Life is hard, church shouldn't be!
> http://fairmontpark.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 06:06:34 -0700
> From: "Kenneth E. Harker" <kenharker at kenharker.com>
> Subject: Re: [ARDF] Fun and Frustration
> To: Jay Hennigan <jay at west.net>
> Cc: Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net>, ARDF <ardf at kkn.net>,     Gerald
>        Boyd <wb8wfk at worldnet.att.net>
> Message-ID: <20090925130634.GA21633 at kenharker.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 11:51:21PM -0700, Jay Hennigan WB6RDV wrote:
>
> > > Seriously, I interpret "radio sport" to encompass contesting whether
> > > at a HF multi-multi station or a modest home station.  It could be
> > > V/UHF roving or moon-bounce.
> >
> > I would define that as a contest, not a sport.  Working the rare DX in a
> > pileup is somewhat like being the tenth caller to the top-40 AM radio
> > station with the right answer to the trivia question.  Exciting,
> > competition, fun, but not a sport.
> >
> > Shame on the ARRL for this month's QST with a theme of "Radio sport" and
> > zero mention of even the existence of ARDF.
>
> The term "radiosport" has been used in Europe to describe what North
> Americans call "contesting" for at least 50 years.  The first HF contest
> sponsored by the IARU (rather than by one of the national societies) was
> called the IARU Radiosport Championship (the name was changed in 1986 to
> the IARU HF World Championship, which is what it is known as today).  In
> 1990, the first World Radiosport Team Championship (WRTC) was held in
> Seattle, an invitation-only event that has become the quadrennial de-facto
> world championship for elite HF contesters (the next one, WRTC 2010 in
> Moscow, has had over two years of qualifying events for contesters trying
> to
> earn a spot at the competition).  A little over a year ago, QST decided to
> add a monthly column dedicated to contesting, which they've called
> Radiosport,
> and they've also decided to make one issue a year the Radiosport focus
> issue
> with a few more articles than normal on the topic (much like there's an
> antenna issue, an emcomm issue, a classic radios issue, etc.)  They chose
> the fall for that, as the HF contest "season" generally lasts from October
> to May, when the propagation is best for the northern hemisphere.
>
> The term radiosport in Europe has been used to cover all competitive uses
> of amateur radio, including contesting, direction finding, and telegraphy
> competitions.  During the Cold War years, in some eastern European
> countries,
> especially Russia, it was not uncommon for festivals/events to include
> some of each competitive format, and the Friendship Radio Games did the
> same.
> In North America, ARDF and HST were never as popular, so amateur radio
> operators over here who have heard the term "radiosport" are more likely to
> have heard it in the context of contesting.  The population of ARRL members
> who are contesters is probably three orders of magnitude larger (and
> growing)
> than the population that actively participates in direction finding (which
> is not growing), so it is little surprise that the term "radiosport" is
> used by QST to talk about contesting.
>
> But, that doesn't mean that Sean KX9X, who writes the Radiosport column,
> might not be persuaded to write about other forms of "radiosport" once in a
> while.  In fact, the use of the term radiosport for the column and the
> QST focus issue might be a very good thing for ARDF and HST, as it gives a
> hook to get those "sports" mentioned in the magazine that did not exist
> beforehand.  Sean's email, by the way, is kx9x at arrl.org.
>
> If anyone on the list wants to know more about contesting, feel free to
> email me directly - I've been an active contester longer than I've been
> involved in ARDF:
>
> http://www.wm5r.org/contest/
>
> --
> Kenneth E. Harker WM5R
> kenharker at kenharker.com
> http://www.kenharker.com/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:32:55 -0700
> From: Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net>
> Subject: Re: [ARDF] Fun and Frustration
> To: ARDF <ardf at kkn.net>
> Message-ID: <4ABCF0B7.8080704 at west.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> I really appreciate all the comments that have been made regarding this
> topic! Right now, I'm still thinking about them to see how they can be
> used to increase participation. I still need to check out the online
> orienteering game to see how useful it would be for training.
>
> A couple of thoughts come to mind.
>
> First, I don't think anyone who would like to be more serious about be
> too concerned if it is called ARDF or Radio Orienteering. Where it might
> be important is when creating images in newer peoples head about what
> this is all about, especially orienteers.
>
> Here are the Google external keyword Global monthly search counts for
> August:
>
> ardf - 6,600
> transmitter hunting - 390
> thunting - 1,300
> radio orienteering - 390
> t-hunting - 14,800
> transmitter hunt - 320
>
> As a first thought, it would be a good idea for any of you running a
> blog or website to make sure both "ARDF" and "Radio Orienteering" are
> included as part of your keyword list in addition to "t-hunting."
>
> A second thought is still that monthly hunts are just too infrequent to
> get anyone seriously interested in ARDF. That is one reason I'm
> interested in hearing how the weekly hunts in Boston are working out.
>
> A third thought is that I am starting to work on is a website dedicated
> to ARDF training. I've been talking to Joe Moell, K0OV, about this for a
> while, so I'm sure he is sick of hearing about it :). There are SO MANY
> things that reading just can't make clear, so I am planning on using
> audio and video as well.
>
> A simple example would be what the sound of pointing towards the
> transmitter vs away sounds like. I don't think training people to use an
> HT S-meter is useful as it starts people off on the wrong way of doing
> things.
>
> And just to make it clear, I would most likely have a bunch of free
> content covering the basics to get people interested, but charge for the
> more advanced content. I'm not sure at this point if I would publish a
> DVD or just make it available for viewing/downloading.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marvin, KE6HTS
>
>
>
> > I would love to hear your thoughts about is what people find fun, and
> > what they frustrating about ARDF. Joe and April Moell and myself have
> > been putting on ARDF hunts almost every month in So. California for a
> > number of years now. Something I've noticed is the relatively low return
> > rate of newcomers.
> >
> > This begs the question of why.
> >
> > Your comments/thoughts would be very much appreciated!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:17:31 -0400
> From: Vadim Afonkin <vadim.afonkin at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [ARDF] Fun and Frustration
> To: Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net>
> Cc: ARDF <ardf at kkn.net>
> Message-ID: <DA1B0737-B373-48A9-BFF9-70DBF3BC1655 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=koi8-r; format=flowed;  delsp=yes
>
> Marvin,
>
> We had our hunts almost every weekend here in Boston and by now we
> have 5-7 folks coming to the trainings on regular base. But none of
> them hams. And every time we have a training at Blue Hills we have
> more and more people wondering what it is and how they can try it. It
> is important to understand that word "ARDF" makes no sence for people
> not familiar with this, when word "Radio Orienteering" explains it all
> in a flash. I think we shoul use word Radio Orienteering for
> newcommers. Want more people? Go after runners and orienteerers. Go
> after 13-14 yers old kids. Those are best groups to approach.
> Unfortunatelly hams are not interested in ARDF
>
> ?????????? ? iPhone
>
> 25.09.2009, ? 12:32, Marvin Johnston <marvin at west.net> ???????(?):
>
> >
> > I really appreciate all the comments that have been made regarding
> > this
> > topic! Right now, I'm still thinking about them to see how they can be
> > used to increase participation. I still need to check out the online
> > orienteering game to see how useful it would be for training.
> >
> > A couple of thoughts come to mind.
> >
> > First, I don't think anyone who would like to be more serious about be
> > too concerned if it is called ARDF or Radio Orienteering. Where it
> > might
> > be important is when creating images in newer peoples head about what
> > this is all about, especially orienteers.
> >
> > Here are the Google external keyword Global monthly search counts for
> > August:
> >
> > ardf - 6,600
> > transmitter hunting - 390
> > thunting - 1,300
> > radio orienteering - 390
> > t-hunting - 14,800
> > transmitter hunt - 320
> >
> > As a first thought, it would be a good idea for any of you running a
> > blog or website to make sure both "ARDF" and "Radio Orienteering" are
> > included as part of your keyword list in addition to "t-hunting."
> >
> > A second thought is still that monthly hunts are just too infrequent
> > to
> > get anyone seriously interested in ARDF. That is one reason I'm
> > interested in hearing how the weekly hunts in Boston are working out.
> >
> > A third thought is that I am starting to work on is a website
> > dedicated
> > to ARDF training. I've been talking to Joe Moell, K0OV, about this
> > for a
> > while, so I'm sure he is sick of hearing about it :). There are SO
> > MANY
> > things that reading just can't make clear, so I am planning on using
> > audio and video as well.
> >
> > A simple example would be what the sound of pointing towards the
> > transmitter vs away sounds like. I don't think training people to
> > use an
> > HT S-meter is useful as it starts people off on the wrong way of doing
> > things.
> >
> > And just to make it clear, I would most likely have a bunch of free
> > content covering the basics to get people interested, but charge for
> > the
> > more advanced content. I'm not sure at this point if I would publish a
> > DVD or just make it available for viewing/downloading.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Marvin, KE6HTS
> >
> >
> >
> >> I would love to hear your thoughts about is what people find fun, and
> >> what they frustrating about ARDF. Joe and April Moell and myself have
> >> been putting on ARDF hunts almost every month in So. California for a
> >> number of years now. Something I've noticed is the relatively low
> >> return
> >> rate of newcomers.
> >>
> >> This begs the question of why.
> >>
> >> Your comments/thoughts would be very much appreciated!
> > _______________________________________________
> > ARDF mailing list
> > ARDF at kkn.net
> > http://www.kkn.net/mailman/listinfo/ardf
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of ARDF Digest, Vol 76, Issue 10
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>