[FQP] [FCG] APRS

Fri Apr 20 04:16:38 PDT 2007

Hello All,

I have been seeing all these APRS discussions, and my take is that if a
fixed based operator has internet access and can see all these APRS targets
out there, he is then able to see only their locations reported at a
specific time and the callsign of the APRS reporting station.

So, most likely if the vehicle is in motion or has moved previously, you
won't know where the mobile is precisely until the next APRS update.

Secondly, I don't think anyone will know what mode or frequency the mobile
station is working from an APRS display, so I don't think there is much
value in APRS position reporting

So, if you, don't know his frequency, operating mode, and maybe even the
propagation conditions from your location to his mobile position at the
time, then there is probably not much chance of working this mobile with the
assistance of APRS.

Your energy is probably best spent by just tuning for mobiles as we have
always done and not include APRS as another factor in the contest rules.

However, with technology advances, who knows, maybe in the future more meta
data attributes of an APRS target station will be displayed that provides
information such as his current frequency, power, operating mode, etc; etc;

As a side note, my company has been heavily involved in the integration of
new situational awareness (SA) technologies on the Special Operations Forces
(SOF) AC-130 Gunship aircraft here at our Modification complex in Crestview,
Florida. We have two 67,000 square foot hangars here, and we have many SOF
aircraft and rotary wing systems in here that we modify and then ship over
to the Theater as soon as possible.

We have deployed a system for the Warfighters that we developed known as the
Machine to Machine Situational Awareness (M2MSA) system. Basically we send a
series of near-real time situational awareness Tracks (icons) with their
associated Meta Data attributes over a secure Tactical SATCOM link from
tactical ground C4ISR nodes in Theater up to the Aircraft who are working
target areas.

Therefore, we are providing the aircrews with what we call a "Synchronized
Common Operational Picture" of the tactical battlespace on their Falcon View
Map displays during their missions. (This is kind of an APRS on
Sterioids)......

This provides the aircrews working specific targets with enhanced
situational awareness of all ground, maritime, and airborne platforms in the
overall BattleSpace.

The future is rapidly migrating to Network Centric Warfare Operations and
providing the warfighters with a continuous updated Enhanced Situational
Awareness (SA) picture to help "Shorten the Kill Chain" and allow them to
more effectively work multiple targets in a single mission.

Remember guys, that my colleagues in the SOF community, are working 24 x 7
over there in theater right now, as the OPS tempo has been very intense.

So, in summary, Situational Awareness (SA) tracks or SA Technologies, just
like APRS for amateurs have values for other reasons than for potential
assistance in a contest.

Advances in APRS are the kinds of things that would be useful for disaster
operations and/or Homeland Defense types of scenarios of the future.

Sorry for being so long winded.

Thanks,

Jim
K4PV

-----Original Message-----
From: fcg-bounces at kkn.net [mailto:fcg-bounces at kkn.net]On Behalf Of
K1to at aol.com
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 12:22 AM
To: fcg at kkn.net; fqp at kkn.net
Subject: Re: [FCG] APRS

In a message dated 4/19/07 7:46:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lromero at ij.net
writes:

> >4)  My biggest concern is that single op non-FL stations accessing APRS
> info could gain what amounts to >spotting assistance, thereby placing them
> into a multi-op category.
>
> A valid concern, but if they are seriously entering FQP and relying on the
> APRS network for "spots", then they are not really serious.  Even over
> I-Gates, propagation into the APRS network of a specific station's
location
> is not even close to "near real-time" as is the Spotting Clusters.
>
> Seriously, you would be much more effective in tuning and searching than
> going through all the rigmarole to find stations to work in rare counties
> over the APRS network.  On Find-U or K4IFR, you would need to know and
enter
> the *callsign* of the station you're looking for to find it!
>
> In the case of "mobile" mobiles, in some instances, the mobile will have
> traveled all the way through a  county by the time that its position gets
> posted into the stream over an I-Gate.
>
> Also remember that there are several large "holes" in the Florida APRS
> network.  It is by no means even near 90% coverage of the state!  For
> instance, north of San Antonio on I-75, you have no digi coverage for
miles
> until you get to near Ocala.  There is nothing between T-hassee and Panama
> City.  There is nothing north of Cedar Key till you get to Madison.  These
> are just the ones I am aware of from my travels with my Tiny Tracker in my
> car with a 5 watt transmitter.
>
> If the point is spotting mobiles in "rare" counties on APRS, then folks
are
> in for a rude awakening.  If the county is rare because it has no HF
active
> ham, chances are rare that it will have a Digi able to relay a low power
> mobile tracker into an I-Gate and then into the Internet APRS stream.
>
> APRS for FQP mobiles is kind of moot.  Although it would be fun to watch,
> you cant seriously contest and watch it at the same time.
>
> -lu-
>

Fantastic insight, Lu.  Thanks for contributing a voice of experience.

Looking ahead to future years, what does everyone think about writing a
clause into the rules about APRS usage?  I suspect that the holes in
coverage will
be filled in and that the spots will become more real time.

I'm still unsure how much of an advantage this provides, though.  Anyone
accessing our FQP announced route page can plot a mobile's progress even
without a
map.

73, Dan

**************************************
 See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
_______________________________________________
FCG mailing list
Send mail - FCG at kkn.net
Change/edit subscription info - http://www.kkn.net/mailman/listinfo/fcg
FCG Web site - www.floridacontestgroup.org
Member Map - http://www.frappr.com/floridacontestgroup
DXCluster - telnet to n4ser.dyndns.org