VASCM: Alternatives to netting for birds

Joe Miller jmiller1068 at gmail.com
Wed May 29 10:04:02 PDT 2013 

The side nets block a fair amount of light, but of course only on the sides, so the vine's overall exposure to sunlight shouldn't be affected too much. All of the drape nets they show in the site do block significant amounts of light, though careful measurements would be required to see exactly how much. From my experience, the one vineyard that I get grapes from that doesn't net at all generally has the earliest ripening grapes in the area, and its exposure and other conditions are those that would not lead one to expect earlier ripening. But that's just one vineyard, not a a general proof of anything.

I'm puzzled about the claim that that white nets block less light. I've heard it before. Why? Is there a study that shows this by actual measurement? The main light blocking is just geometry. How much of the area does not pass light? White nets just reflect all visible wavelengths the same and thus appear the same color as the sun, white. If you can see the net, the vines behind the net are losing the light that enables you to see the net. I have seen nets that actually prevent you from seeing the vines because of the way they are draped. I suppose if white nets became transparent in the UV, that might help.  Ah, enough of this already. Sorry, just the musings of an old scientist! 

Joe

On May 29, 2013, at 8:51 AM, Brian Wilkerson wrote:

> After 10 years of 'research' with various types of nets, side and full
> netting, we found white side nets from
> 
> http://www.spectrellising.com/wildlife/index.php#sidevine
> 
> to be our preferred netting for a few reasons:
> 
> They're white - which reduces light by 6% rather than the 15% or more from
> black mesh
> 
> They have smaller openings - pulling dead finches from extruded black mesh
> was nearly a daily task. We also lost a fair amount of fruit through the
> larger mesh. The smaller mesh virtually eliminated this problem.
> 
> Side netting avoids the need for severe hedging. Hedging for us is a real
> problem not only because of the reduced canopy when we're trying to ripen
> fruit - but also because we are now cane pruning many of our vineyards so
> we need those longer canes. And as the vines continue to grow, they can
> push the netting right up against the bottom of the cordon possibly
> exposing your fruit to bird pressure.
> 
> Easy on and off - netting over the top typically requires a boom on the
> tractor, and also requires you to cover the tops of all your steel posts
> (if you're on a VSP) because they can damage the nets.
> 
> We use bamboo bbq skewers to close top and bottom. Just hold two sides
> together and sew them through a few openings. Cheap, and very fast on and
> off (most important). We buy them by the case at smart and final. Here's
> something similar. We need about 3 per vine to close top and bottom, so we
> use thousands of them.
> 
> 
> http://www.partycity.com/product/12in+bamboo+skewers+100ct.do?producttargetid=51730&kwid=Bamboo%20Skewers%2012in%20100ct&qcid=&gclid=COTwoKLUu7cCFUmCQgodInAArw
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Thomas Legan <t.legan1200 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Interesting point about nets blocking light...Back in 2000 when SCMtn
>> Vineyards purchased my Pinot, Jeff and his crew picked the day before
>> Thanksgiving!  Wonder if the nets had anything to do with that late
>> harvest.  Typically we harvest my Pinot and Chard in late October/early Nov
>> anyway ... for 20 years,  and they're always netted.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Jim Varano <snipewarrior at comcast.net
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I can't delete this e-mail....won't stay gone....anyone else have this
>>> issue?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On May 28, 2013, at 10:41 AM, Joe Miller <jmiller1068 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> That's good to know, Richard. My comments were about the vagaries of
>>> overhead netting, but from what you say you don't need to use it at all
>>> with equally good results. I do know of vineyards that I believe are
>>> stretching their Pinot season well into October because of netting
>>> blocking, but until I have the right measuring equipment I can't prove
>> it.
>>>> 
>>>> Joe
>>>> 
>>>> On May 28, 2013, at 10:35 AM, Rfalfaro at aol.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Using fruit zone nets cuts down dramatically the shading of the vines
>>> vs. overhead netting. It costs more but does not interfere with the
>>> photosynthesis like the overhead netting does....
>>>>> 
>>>>> In a message dated 5/28/2013 10:31:36 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>>> jmiller1068 at gmail.com writes:
>>>>> Many years ago on a visit to the National Radio Astronomy Observatory,
>>> I found they were using sounds to keep birds away from their very
>> sensitive
>>> radio receivers. After lengthy experiment they came up with a random
>> sound
>>> generator that made an infinite series of sounds, some very bizarre, that
>>> never repeated. They claimed it had been working for years. I urged the
>>> people involved to contact grape and other growers, but I don't believe
>>> that ever happened. I could try to find out if this is all lost to the
>> past.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Soloar energy people working with photovoltaics have looked for good
>>> screening to protect their cells, but all screens and nets, even chicken
>>> wire, block significant sunlight. The finest effective screen an
>>> engineering  friend of mine found was made out of very fine chicken wire,
>>> and it blocked 15% of the light. I'm probably alone in this, but I
>> believe
>>> that some people are using nets that block enough sunlight to delay their
>>> grapes ripening by weeks. I've seen nets that are blocking over 50% of
>> the
>>> sunlight in many places because of their folds.I'm trying to get the
>>> equipment available to measure the blockage of different nets. It has to
>> be
>>> done carefully. Of course there's more to ripening than sunlight, but
>>> somehow I think photosynthesis is a central element, and less photons
>> mean
>>> slower ripening. Maybe out in the literature there are some studies of
>> this
>>> already. If anybody thinks this is a good thing for me to pursue, let me
>>> know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Joe
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 22, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Jim Adkisson wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have purchased recorded sounds of a dozen birds of prey that is
>>> supposed
>>>>>> to keep birds away. Claims that it is used at golf courses, airports
>>> and for
>>>>>> crops. DOES NOT WORK. Happy to send copy of WAV files for anyone
>>> interested.
>>>>>> Netting is your salvation.
>>>>>> Jim Adkisson
>>>>>> Falcon Hill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: vascm-bounces at kkn.net [mailto:vascm-bounces at kkn.net] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>>>>> Candice Wozniak
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:25 PM
>>>>>> To: Debbie Lehmann
>>>>>> Cc: VASCM at kkn.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: VASCM: Alternatives to netting for birds
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I want to try a computer operated sound/noise maker. Does anyone have
>>> one I
>>>>>> can have or borrow?
>>>>>> I have a Rodenator available for anyone to borrow.
>>>>>> -Candice Wozniak
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 22, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Debbie Lehmann <
>> debbie.lehmann at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Has anybody used something other than nets to control birds after
>>>>>> veraison?
>>>>>>> We are thinking about experimenting this year with one of those
>> sound
>>>>>> boxes
>>>>>>> that puts out predatory bird calls, and maybe using reflective tape
>> as
>>>>>>> well. Does anybody have experience with these? Do they work at all?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Debbie
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Portola Vineyards
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Best always,
>> 
>> Tom
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